tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post2499143148304583090..comments2023-08-17T14:11:19.206+01:00Comments on Lisybabe's Blog: Ricky Gervais and the politics of MongLisahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16714918894319998184noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-31385596489677183892011-10-26T13:29:33.139+01:002011-10-26T13:29:33.139+01:00You said "In the 1860s Dr John Langdon Down d...You said "In the 1860s Dr John Langdon Down decided to classify people with learning difficulties by "which country they looked like they came from" (really!) and he thought people with an extra 21st chromosome looked like they came from Mongolia so named the condition 'Mongolism'"<br /><br />I pointed out that in fact he didn't. He did not name the condition "mongolism" or call people "mongols". People (doctors) in his own time and a bit later picked up on his writings and did that themselves - probably thought it was a snappy label. Somewhere I have some research that pinpoints the chap who started it but I can't recall his name from memory.<br /><br />Incidentally my daughter, who has Down's Syndrome, is very proud of who she is and we spent last Monday with a bunch of medical students and she gave them a half an hour speech which included how great she is among other stuff ... and then I told them how it has been for us from a mother's perspective of medics during her life - including one GP who said when she was 3 years old "She's a mongol isn't she? She seems quite bright - have you considered plastic surgery?" <br /><br />We do this training every 6-8 weeks with new students and one of the things I push them for is to be active in the pursuit of discrimination - in their surgeries and in the street - since being bullied and hurt by others is a very unhealthy thing and their duty of care extends beyond their consulting room ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-20376103949468125442011-10-24T18:47:04.901+01:002011-10-24T18:47:04.901+01:00@Stu:
The thing about the absence of censorship i...@Stu:<br /><br />The thing about the absence of censorship is that you've got no-ones door to lay blame at: You have to accept responsibility for whatever comes out of your own mouth.<br /><br />I'm a big fan of politically correct comedy. I used to be a stand-up before I became too ill to carry on. But long before I started performing I formed the opinion that I think "comedy" that bullies people from oppressed groups is unfunny. If one can't make jokes without prejudice then one needs to consider whether one is actually funny enough to be doing comedy.<br /><br />I used to love it when I'd done a set and then someone else would go on after me, do a disablist gag, and get greeted by nothing but blank faces from the crowd. I just knew that if I hadn't been there the audience would've laughed and it made me feel great to know I'd made a difference to how those audience members see disabled people, no matter how small that difference was.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16714918894319998184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-57369255776877411822011-10-24T18:32:20.474+01:002011-10-24T18:32:20.474+01:00@Anonymous:
I didn't vilify anyone. I gave a ...@Anonymous:<br /><br />I didn't vilify anyone. I gave a one paragraph precis of the origin of the term "mong". I also never claimed he called anyone a "mongol," I just pointed out that "mongol" is shortened from "mongolism", and "mong" is an even shorter form of the word.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16714918894319998184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-9259578137826434302011-10-21T19:35:18.647+01:002011-10-21T19:35:18.647+01:00Idiot was also a term used to describe people with...Idiot was also a term used to describe people with learning difficulties in the past. Along with moron and imbecile. Pretty much everyone I know uses idiot in day to day conversation without stopping to think for a moment that it might be hate speech and offensive to people with learning difficulties. Whether it is or not I don't know. I work for people with learning difficulties and have not heard them comment on either "mong" or "idiot" but Iwill ask.<br /><br />Perhaps "idiot" is so historical that Gervais's agruement holds true for it? Where as I am oldenough to remember people being called mongols.<br /><br />At the root of this though is that everyone (even people withlearning difficulties themselves in my experience) think that being of less tha "average intelligence" is a "bad thing". It's notlike being black or gay, something to be proud of. Whatever words we use they will become terms of abuse eventually until people are proud of their difference.<br /><br />Cathy WintersgillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-52339763647726264552011-10-21T17:26:11.706+01:002011-10-21T17:26:11.706+01:00John Down didn't label anyone a mongol. In f...John Down didn't label anyone a mongol. In fact if you read his paper "On the ethnic classification of idiots" - remembering that in that time 'idiot' was a bone fide medical term - you can see he was essentially arguing against slavery and for the essential unity of mankind (OK so women are there too and he also argued for education for women as a separate issue).<br /><br />John Down was an amazing man and well loved by the people he helped. He held entertainments (people with learning disabilities were performers, stage hands or audience and the local gentry attended too) regularly, taught people to read and write and think in terms of getting jobs. The wheel turned with Galton and his wretched eugenics theories.<br /><br />Please don't villify him or indeed comment without going back and reading his original papers and indeed his book. You can get them on interlibrary loans. He was an astute observer and realised that there were a number of factors which might lead to a learning disability. Apart from Down's Syndrome he recognised fetal alcohol syndrome for instance - all before modern scientific techniques arrived.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-88357370952230777742011-10-21T15:26:46.081+01:002011-10-21T15:26:46.081+01:00Good blog ... well made argument
I'm repostin...Good blog ... well made argument<br /><br />I'm reposting and hope you get lotsa feedback ... I'm a standup and have very mixed feelings on the whole issue, as I don't believe in censorship but I do believe that Gervais is only seeking publicity for his new series and should be shunned and ignored like some twattish, school playground bully ... rather than given the exposure he desires<br /><br />But ... I'm not the one being offended here, so I wanna hear other opinions<br /><br />And I do respect what you've said<br /><br />CheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-31133293606784307682011-10-21T14:55:09.836+01:002011-10-21T14:55:09.836+01:00As a disabled person & member of a local Disab...As a disabled person & member of a local Disability Forum, who are active in making ours & other disabled people's lives better, I understand exactly where you are coming from on these issues. Although people are entitled to their own opinions how can one truly understand what it's like to be disabled if one isn't themselves? Yes we need non-disabled people to fight for us at times, but many disabled people need to find their own voices too if they wish to be heard & understood. It's good to be able to laugh at yourself & your own disability but some of these so-called comedians go too far & are encouraging Disability Hate Crime by their thoughtless actions. I've also noticed how many times people affected by disability, race or gender discrimination are often never even asked about their views on issues that concern them, which is ridiculous. In order to get a full picture of something, you need to include all those who are particularly affected, not just the onlookers who can only try to imagine what it's like. Ignorance & misinformation cause fear, which in turn leads to jealousy, violence & hate. Society need educating on the misconceptions surrounding all disability if we are to make some leeway with the Hate Crime campaigns.Tracey Gillibrandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-73257704764454006552011-10-21T14:51:03.838+01:002011-10-21T14:51:03.838+01:00I've also noticed the absence of people with D...I've also noticed the absence of people with Down Syndrome from all this, although I imagine part of why they haven't been asked, is to avoid exposing them to a rich and famous bully, given the way his other critics have been treated.<br /><br />I think that's what's so disturbing about this - not that the man said an offensive word (which I've certainly never heard in any other context) - but that he and his supporters behaved so hatefully towards people who spoke up. Nobody tried to censor Gervais, but he very effectively censored others by making it harder to express any objection. Our very powerlessness has become a source of amusement.The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6233625.post-30709310192473230542011-10-21T08:01:52.176+01:002011-10-21T08:01:52.176+01:00Agreed.
People with LD and DS need a voice.
The ...Agreed. <br />People with LD and DS need a voice. <br />The fact that they are talked *about* and never talked *to* is a problem and proof that they do not yet have an equal stake in society. <br />Mencap and Scope tirelessly campaign for disability equality and yet nothing much ever seems to change.<br />A real shame given that we live in the 21st frigging century!christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17430380041091277441noreply@blogger.com